He's been featured in Forbes, the Daily Beast, Big Think, and Vice. And another: in defending the pagan continuity hypothesis, Muraresku presumes a somewhat non-Jewish, pagan-like Jesus, while ignoring the growing body of psychedelic literature, including works by . And I want to say that this question that we've been exploring the last half hour about what all this means for the present will be very much the topic of our next event on February 22, which is taking up the question of psychedelic chaplaincy. 44:48 Psychedelics and ancient cave art . CHARLES STANG: Thank you, Brian. Rupert Sheldrake, PhD, is a biologist and author best known for his hypothesis of morphic resonance. Like the wedding at Cana, which my synopsis of that event is a drunkard getting a bunch of drunk people even more drunk. So why the silence from the heresiologists on a psychedelic sacrament? Reviewed in the United States on January 29, 2023 I mean, in the absence of the actual data, that's my biggest question. Now, that is part of your kind of interest in democratizing mysticism, but it also, curiously, cuts out the very people who have been preserving this tradition for centuries, namely, on your own account, this sort of invisible or barely visible lineage of women. So now it's true that these heresy hunters show an interest in this love potion. That's, just absurd. Now, I don't put too much weight into that. According to Muraresku, this work, which "presents the pagan continuity hypothesis with a psychedelic twist," addresses two fundamental questions: "Before the rise of Christianity, did the Ancient Greeks consume a secret psychedelic sacrament during their most famous and well-attended religious rituals? It seems to me, though, that the intensity and the potency of the psychedelic experience is of an order of magnitude different than what I may have experienced through the Eucharist. The answer seems to be connected to psychedelic drugs. He co-writes that with Gordon Wasson and Albert Hofmann, who famously-- there it is, the three authors. In the same place in and around Pompeii, this is where Christianity is really finding its roots. But the point being, if the Dionysian wine was psychedelic-- which I know is a big if-- I think the more important thing to show here in this pagan continuity hypothesis is that it's at least plausible that the earliest Christians would have at the very least read the Gospel of John and interpreted that paleo-Christian Eucharistic wine, in some communities, as a kind of Dionysian wine. Now I understand and I appreciate the pharmaceutical industry's ability to distribute this as medicine for those who are looking for alternatives, alternative treatments for depression and anxiety and PTSD and addiction and end of life distress. So you were unable to test the vessels on site in Eleusis, which is what led you to, if I have this argument right, to Greek colonies around the Mediterranean. Which is a very weird thing today. CHARLES STANG: We're often in this situation where we're trying to extrapolate from evidence from Egypt, to see is Egypt the norm or is it the exception? This two-part discussion between Muraresku and Dr. Plotkin examines the role psychedelics have played in the development of Western civilization. And did the earliest Christians inherit the same secret tradition? I was satisfied with I give Brian Muraresku an "A" for enthusiasm, but I gave his book 2 stars. To become truly immortal, Campbell talks about entering into a sense of eternity, which is the infinite present here and now. And it was their claim that when the hymn to Demeter, one of these ancient records that records, in some form, the proto-recipe for this kykeon potion, which I call like a primitive beer, in the hymn to Demeter, they talk about ingredients like barley, water, and mint. BRIAN MURARESKU: We can dip from both pies, Dr. Stang. And besides that, young Brian, let's keep the mysteries mysteries. And so I don't think that psychedelics are coming to replace the Sunday Eucharist. So I'll speak in language that you and our good colleague Greg [? CHARLES STANG: All right. So, I mean, my biggest question behind all of this is, as a good Catholic boy, is the Eucharist. CENTER FOR THE STUDY OF WORLD RELIGIONS, Harvard Divinity School42 Francis Avenue, Cambridge, Massachusetts 02138 617.495.4495, my.hds |Harvard Divinity School |Harvard University |Privacy |Accessibility |Digital Accessibility | Trademark Notice |Reporting Copyright Infringements. The Tim Ferriss Show. Is taking all these disciplines, whether it's your discipline or archaeochemistry or hard core botany, biology, even psychopharmacology, putting it all together and taking a look at this mystery, this puzzle, using the lens of psychedelics as a lens, really, to investigate not just the past but the future and the mystery of human consciousness. Not because they just found that altar. I imagine there are many more potion makers around than we typically recognize. Thank you, sir. What about all these early Christians themselves as essentially Jews? But in any case, Ruck had his career, well, savaged, in some sense, by the reaction to his daring to take this hypothesis seriously, this question seriously. And I hear-- I sense that narrative in your book. Let me just pull up my notes here. Read more 37 people found this helpful Helpful Report abuse Tfsiebs So much research! They linked the idea of witches to an imagined organized sect which was a danger to the Christian commonwealth. And so I do see an avenue, like I kind of obliquely mentioned, but I do think there's an avenue within organized religion and for people who dedicate their lives as religious professionals to ministry to perhaps take a look at this in places where it might work. And I, for one, look forward to a time when I can see him in person for a beer, ergotized beer or not, if he ever leaves Uruguay. I mean, what-- my big question is, what can we say about the Eucharist-- and maybe it's just my weird lens, but what can we say about it definitively in the absence of the archaeochemstry or the archaeobotany? That to live on forever and ever, to live an everlasting life is not immortality. I am excited . I think it's important you have made a distinction between what was Jesus doing at the Last Supper, as if we could ever find out. And she happened to find it on psilocybin. And I just happened to fall into that at the age of 14 thanks to the Jesuits, and just never left it behind. She had the strange sense that every moment was an eternity of its own. Now, that date is obviously very suggestive because that's precisely the time the Christians were establishing a beachhead in Rome. The book was published by Saint Martin's Press in September 2020 and has generated a whirlwind of attention. If you look at Dioscorides, for example, his Materia Medica, that's written in the first century AD around the same time that the Gospels themselves are being written. Before I set forth the outline of this thesis, three topics must be discussed in order to establish a basic understanding of the religious terminology, Constantine's reign, and the contemporary sources. Now, Mithras is another one of these mystery religions. And I think it's proof of concept-- just proof of concept-- for investing serious funding, and attention into the actual search for these kinds of potions. Up until that point I really had very little knowledge of psychedelics, personal or literary or otherwise. I wish that an ancient pharmacy had been preserved by Mount Vesuvius somewhere near Alexandria or even in upper Egypt or in Antioch or parts of Turkey. Now, it doesn't have to be the Holy Grail that was there at the Last Supper, but when you think about the sacrament of wine that is at the center of the world's biggest religion of 2.5 billion people, the thing that Pope Francis says is essential for salvation, I mean, how can we orient our lives around something for which there is little to no physical data? I'm not sure where it falls. OK. Now let's pan back because, we have-- I want to wrap up my interrogation of you, which I've been pressing you, but I feel as if perhaps people joining me think I'm hostile to this hypothesis. Read more about The Immortality Key by Brian Muraresku Making Sense by Sam Harris 40:15 Witches, drugs, and the Catholic Church . One attendee has asked, "How have religious leaders reacted so far to your book? So you lean on the good work of Harvard's own Arthur Darby Nock, and more recently, the work of Dennis McDonald at Claremont School of Theology, to suggest that the author of the Gospel of John deliberately paints Jesus and his Eucharist in the colors of Dionysus. The pagan continuity hypothesis at the heart of this book made sense to me. And maybe therein we do since the intimation of immortality. So, like, they're wonderstruck, or awestruck by their libations and their incense. And he was actually going out and testing some of these ancient chalices. Tim Ferriss Show #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin: The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Psychedelics, and More. There's John Marco Allegro claiming that there was no Jesus, and this was just one big amanita muscaria cult. According to Muraresku, this work, which "presents the pagan continuity hypothesis with a psychedelic twist," addresses two fundamental questions: "Before the rise of Christianity, did the Ancient Greeks consume a secret psychedelic sacrament during their most famous and well-attended religious rituals? Who were the Saints? So Gobekli Tepe, for those who don't know, is this site in southern Turkey on the border with Syria. Because again, when I read the clinical literature, I'm reading things that look like mystical experiences, or that at least at least sound like them. And that the proof of concept idea is that we need to-- we, meaning historians of the ancient world, need to bring all the kinds of resources to bear on this to get better evidence and an interpretive frame for making sense of it. And so with a revised ancient history, in place Brian tacks back to the title of our series, Psychedelics and the Future of Religion. I mean, this is what I want to do with some of my remaining days on this planet, is take a look at all these different theories. Now the archaeologist of that site says-- I'm quoting from your book-- "For me, the Villa Vesuvio was a small farm that was specifically designed for the production of drugs." This limestone altar tested positive for cannabis and frankincense that was being burned, they think, in a very ritualistic way. And there you also found mortars that were tested and also tested positive for evidence of brewing. That's one narrative that I feel is a little sensational. Research inside the Church of Saint Faustina and Liberata Fig 1. BRIAN MURARESKU: Right. So even from the very beginning, it wasn't just barley and water. It's a big question for me. . BRIAN MURARESKU: OK. And the big question for me was what was that something else? Not because it was brand new data. All rights reserved. What does that have to do with Christianity? So can you reflect for us where you really are and how you chose to write this book? That is, by giving, by even floating the possibility of this kind of-- at times, what seems like a Dan Brown sort of story, like, oh my god, there's a whole history of Christianity that's been suppressed-- draws attention, but the real point is actually that you're not really certain about the story, but you're certain is that we need to be more attentive to this evidence and to assess it soberly. So, although, I mean, and that actually, I'd like to come back to that, the notion of the, that not just the pagan continuity hypothesis, but the mystery continuity hypothesis through the Vatican. Because even though it's a very long time ago, Gobekli Tepe, interestingly, has some things in common with Eleusis, like the worship of the grain, the possibility of brewing, the notion of a pilgrimage, and interaction with the dead. "The Jews" are not after Ye. Psychedelics Today: PTSF 35 (with Brian Muraresku) Griffithsfund.org CHARLES STANG: So that actually helps answer a question that's in the Q&A that was posed to me, which is why did I say I fully expect that we will find evidence for this? So the basic point being, as far as we can tell, beer and wine are routinely mixed with things that we don't do today. And there were gaps as well. Nage ?] And I want to say to those who are still assembled here that I'm terribly sorry that we can't get to all your questions. And how can you reasonably expect the church to recognize a psychedelic Eucharist? So we're going down parallel paths here, and I feel we're caught between FDA-approved therapeutics and RFRA-protected sacraments, RFRA, the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, or what becomes of these kinds of substances in any kind of legal format-- which they're not legal at the moment, some would argue. What the Greeks were actually saying there is that it was barley infected with ergot, which is this natural fungus that infects cereal crops. Find ratings and reviews for the newest movie and TV shows. The book proposes a history of religious ritualistic psychedelic use at least as old as the ancient Greek mystery religions, especially those starting in Eleusis and dating to roughly 2,000 BC. I mean, I asked lots of big questions in the book, and I fully acknowledge that. And so for me, this was a hunt through the catacombs and archives and libraries, doing my sweet-talking, and trying to figure out what was behind some of those locked doors. He's joining us from Uruguay, where he has wisely chosen to spend his pandemic isolation. Now we're getting somewhere. There's a good number of questions that are very curious why you are insisting on remaining a psychedelic virgin. And I think that we would behoove ourselves to incorporate, resuscitate, maybe, some of those techniques that seem to have been employed by the Greeks at Eleusis or by the Dionysians or some of these earliest Christians. And I'm trying to reconcile that. A lot of Christianity, as you rightly point out, I mean, it was an Eastern phenomenon, all over the eastern Mediterranean. But clearly, when you're thinking about ancient Egypt or elsewhere, there's definitely a funerary tradition. And I've listened to the volunteers who've gone through these experiences. I'm sure he knows this well, by this point. In the Classics world, there's a pagan continuity hypothesis with the very origin of Christianity, and many overt references to Greek plays in the Gospel of John. President and CEO, First Southeast Financial Corp and First Federal Savings and Loan Director, Carolina First Bank and The South Financial Group So the big question is, what kind of drug was this, if it was a drug? According to Muraresku, this work, BOOK REVIEW which "presents the pagan continuity hypothesis with a psychedelic twist," addresses two fundamental questions: "Before the rise of Christianity, did the Ancient Greeks consume a secret psychedelic sacrament during their most famous and well-attended religious rituals? Brian's thesis, that of the Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, was explored by Alexander Hislop in his "The Two Babylons", 1853, as a Protestant treatise in the spirit of Martin Luther as Alexander too interjects the Elusinian Mysteries. So there's a whole slew of sites I want to test there. So the mysteries of Dionysus are a bit more of a free-for-all than the mysteries of Eleusis. And nor do I think that you can characterize southern Italy as ground zero for the spirit of Greek mysticism, or however you put it. You become one with Christ by drinking that. But what I hear from people, including atheists, like Dina Bazer, who participated in these Hopkins NYU trials is that she felt like on her one and only dose of psilocybin that she was bathed in God's love. We know that at the time of Jesus, before, during, and after, there were recipes floating around. This an absolute masterclass on why you must know your identity and goals before forming a habit, what the best systems are for habit. And so in my afterword, I present this as a blip on the archaeochemical radar. That they were what you call extreme beverages. The continuity between pagan and Christian cult nearby the archaeological area of Naquane in Capo di Ponte. I'm going to stop asking my questions, although I have a million more, as you well know, and instead try to ventriloquist the questions that are coming through at quite a clip through the Q&A. But I think the broader question of what's the reception to this among explicitly religious folk and religious leaders? And I think sites like this have tended to be neglected in scholarship, or published in languages like Catalan, maybe Ukrainian, where it just doesn't filter through the academic community. So thank you, all who have hung with us. Nage ?] . What's significant about these features for our piecing together the ancient religion with no name? And we know from the record that [SPEAKING GREEK] is described as being so crowded with gods that they were easier to find than men. Psychedelics are a lens to investigate this stuff. In May of last year, researchers published what they believe is the first archaeochemical data for the use of psychoactive drugs in some form of early Judaism. In this episode, Brian C. Muraresku, who holds a degree from Brown University in Latin, Greek and Sanskrit,  joins Breht to discuss his fascinating book "The Immortality Key: The Secret History of the Religion with No Name", a groundbreaking dive into the use of hallucinogens in ancient Greece, the Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, the role of the Eucharist in early Christianity, the . You also find a Greek hearth inside this sanctuary. Richard Evans Schultes and the Search for Ayahuasca 17 days ago Plants of the Gods: S3E10. There's a moment in the book where you are excited about some hard evidence. And what the FDA can do is make sure that they're doing it in a way that it's absolutely safe and efficacious. So, you know, I specifically wanted to avoid heavily relying on the 52 books of the [INAUDIBLE] corpus or heavily relying too much on the Gospel of Mary Magdalene and the evidence that's come from Egypt. No one lived there. This is going to be a question that's back to the ancient world. I wonder if you're familiar with Wouter Hanegraaff at the University of Amsterdam. I did go straight to [INAUDIBLE] Papangelli in Eleusis, and I went to the museum. Something else I include at the end of my book is that I don't think that whatever this was, this big if about a psychedelic Eucharist, I don't think this was a majority of the paleo-Christians. Brian has been very busy taking his new book on the road, of course, all online, and we're very grateful to him for taking the time to join us this evening. Hard archaeobotanical, archaeochemical data, I haven't seen it. Throughout his five books he talks about wine being mixed with all kinds of stuff, like frankincense and myrrh, relatively innocuous stuff, but also less innocuous things like henbane and mandrake, these solanaceous plants which he specifically says is fatal. So let's start with one that is more contemporary. And there were moments when the sunlight would just break through. So if we can test Eucharistic vessels, I wouldn't be surprised at all that we find one. I mean, I wish it were easier. By which I mean that the Gospel of John suggests that at the very least, the evangelist hoped to market Christianity to a pagan audience by suggesting that Jesus was somehow equivalent to Dionysus, and that the Eucharist, his sacrament of wine, was equivalent to Dionysus's wine. And does it line up with the promise from John's gospel that anyone who drinks this becomes instantly immortal? In this hypothesis, both widely accepted and widely criticized,11 'American' was synonymous with 'North American'. I wish the church fathers were better botanists and would rail against the specific pharmacopeia. But we do know that something was happening. And so I don't know what a really authentic, a really historic-looking ritual that is equal parts sacred, but also, again, medically sound, scientifically rigorous, would look like. I include that line for a reason. I'm not sure many have. They minimized or completely removed the Jewish debates found in the New Testament, and they took on a style that was more palatable to the wider pagan world. So how does Dionysian revelries get into this picture? So how exactly is this evidence of something relevant to Christianity in Rome or southern Italy more widely? Where does Western civilization come from? That seems very believable, but there's nothing to suggest that the pharmacy or drug farm was serving Christians, or even that the potions produced were for ritual use. That event is already up on our website and open for registration. And in the ancient world, wine was routinely referred to as a [SPEAKING GREEK], which is the Greek word for drug. And I don't know what that looks like. CHARLES STANG: Right. When Irenaeus is talking about [SPEAKING GREEK], love potions, again, we have no idea what the hell he's talking about. It seems entirely believable to me that we have a potion maker active near Pompeii. Which turns out, it may be they were. And so I can see psychedelics being some kind of extra sacramental ministry that potentially could ease people at the end of life. Maybe I have that wrong. So if Eleusis is the Fight Club of the ancient world, right, the first rule is you don't talk about it. Little attempt has been made, however, to bridge the gap between \"pagan\" and \"Christian\" or to examine late antique, Christian attitudes toward sexuality and marriage from the viewpoint of the \"average\" Christian. They're mixing potions. I also sense another narrative in your book, and one you've flagged for us, maybe about 10 minutes ago, when you said that the book is a proof of concept. Again, how did Christianity take hold in a world with such a rich mystical tradition? Administration and supervision endeavors and with strong knowledge in: Online teaching and learning methods, Methods for Teaching Mathematics and Technology Integration for K-12 and College . Not much. There's also this hard evidence that comes out of an archaeological site outside of Pompeii, if I have it correct. Now, Brian managed to write this book while holding down a full time practice in international law based in Washington DC. We have some inscriptions. 18.3C: Continuity Theory. We're going to get there very soon. Brought to you by GiveWell.org charity research and effective giving and 5-Bullet Friday, my very own email newsletter.Welcome to The Tim Ferriss Show, where it is usually my job to deconstruct world-class performers to tease out their routines, habits, et cetera that you can apply to your own life. And we know the mysteries were there. BRIAN MURARESKU: I look forward to it, Charlie. And there are legitimate scholars out there who say, because John wanted to paint Jesus in the light of Dionysus, present him as the second coming of this pagan God. And anyone who drinks this, [SPEAKING GREEK], Jesus says in Greek, you remain in me and I in you. They were relevant to me in going down this rabbit hole. You won't find it in many places other than that. Even a little bit before Gobekli Tepe, there was another site unearthed relatively recently in Israel, at the Rakefet cave. Now that the pagan continuity hypothesis is defended, the next task is to show that the pagan and proto-Christian ritual sacraments were, in fact, psychedelicbrews. Despite its popular appeal as a New York Times Bestseller, TIK fails to make a compelling case for its grand theory of the "pagan continuity hypothesis with a psychedelic twist" due to recurring overreach and historical distortion, failure to consider relevant research on shamanism and Christianity, and presentation of speculation as fact Material evidence of a very strange potion, a drug, or a [SPEAKING GREEK]. And Brian, it would be helpful for me to know whether you are more interested in questions that take up the ancient world or more that deal with this last issue, the sort of contemporary and the future. It was the Jesuits who taught me Latin and Greek. Not because it's not there, because it hasn't been tested. So the Greek god of wine, intoxication. 13,000 years old. So in the mountains and forests from Greece to Rome, including the Holy Land and Galilee. BRIAN MURARESKU: Great question. We call it ego dissolution, things of that nature. I would expect we'd have ample evidence. 8 "The winds, the sea . BRIAN MURARESKU:: It's a simple formula, Charlie. So. It's really quite simple, Charlie. When there's a clear tonal distinction, and an existing precedent for Christian modification to Pagan works, I don't see why you're resistant to the idea, and I'm curious . And, as always the best way to keep abreast of this series and everything else we do here at the Center is to join our mailing list. BRIAN MURARESKU: Now we're cooking with grease, Dr. Stang. And my favorite line of the book is, "The lawyer in me won't sleep until that one chalice, that one container, that one vessel comes to light in an unquestionable Christian context.".